There is wariness behind the luminous blue eyes of Dr. Liet Kynes. She sees people for who they truly are, and is rarely impressed by what she finds. As “the judge of the change” in Dune, she is the scientist turned diplomat who guides the handover of power that gives control of the valuable mining planet to a new royal family. In a story full of conflict, betrayal, lies and secrets, she’s trying to keep the warring factions honest and peaceful. But just like the desolate world she protects, there is more going on beneath her surface than anyone else realizes.
Sharon Duncan-Brewster is the actress who brings Dr. Kynes to life, with a depth of integrity that anchors this sprawling story of galactic gamesmanship. Her casting also race- and gender-swaps a character from the 1965 novel that has previously been depicted only as an older white man (Max Von Sydow in the 1984 film, and Karel Dobrý in the 2001 miniseries).
Duncan-Brewster, 45, has lately become known as a veteran of epic interstellar battles. In the Star Wars film Rogue One, she was the Rebel ally Senator Tynnra Pamlo, and on the recent British TV series Intergalactic she starred as Tula Quik, leader of an interplanetary prisoner uprising. “It’s been a hectic year for me in space,” she jokes. “A really big year.”
With director Denis Villeneuve‘s Dune finally debuting, here is Vanity Fair‘s interview with Duncan-Brewster about the meaningful place her Dr. Kynes holds both in our world and her own far-off planet.
Vanity Fair: The one thing that is the same in all the iterations of Dr. Kynes is a torn allegiance. Where would you say your Dr. Kynes stands amid these warring houses, who are all at odds in this desert world of Arrakis?
Sharon Duncan-Brewster: In a world where allegiance is the be-all and end-all for all the different houses and the different people on the planet, I think Kynes is a bit of a conundrum, really, who is not easily read.
Her main duty is to help House Atreides—Oscar Isaac’s Duke Leto, Rebecca Ferguson’s Lady Jessica, and their son Paul (Timothée Chalamet) take control of this dangerous mining planet. But there’s more to it than that, right?
Kynes is The Judge of the Change, so she is there to oversee a safe handover of Arrakis. On one hand, you would imagine upon first meeting her that she is there to welcome them and to help them navigate around the planet, and to educate them. But on the other hand, she’s also there to make sure that there isn’t any foul play, legally as well as behind-the-scenes. She then does have to report back to the emperor.
She’s the one truly independent broker in all these allegiances and political traps.
Something that nobody really knows is, underneath it all, there is this underlying current. There is more happening within this woman. There’s more to see. Even when you delve deeper, she’s still very good at hiding what’s really going on.
Without spoiling anything, I think it’s safe to say what she actually cares about most is protecting this world.
The wonderful thing about Kynes is that she actually does care a great deal about where she lives, this planet. It’s in her heart, and I think that is the only thing that she wears as her badge, her pride at how beautiful and unique Arrakis is. With regards to everybody that she meets and comes across, there’s always a sense of, “This is where we do right by this planet. This is how we treat the planet, and the planet will respectfully do the same for us.”
The planet has previously been dominated by destructive, exploitative warlords. How does Dr. Kynes first feel about House Atreides taking over?
What she’s thinking when these people arrive is, “Listen, do you respect this planet? [Then] I will respect you.” It’s just a straightforward transaction, really. Deep down, if she found anyone to come along to Arrakis who showed the planet respect, I think she’d be jumping on their bandwagon, because as you say, her allegiance is to Arrakis without a doubt.
But her initial reaction to them is what?
There is absolute distrust, and she’s really blatant about it to begin with. As we go along, she starts to see that Duke Leto has a heart. She’s constantly holding a shield in one hand, and, I don’t know, a cloaking device in the other, just to try to read these people!
Dr. Kynes was a male character in the book, and in the films he has always been played by a white actor. It is important that there’s more representation in film, so I wondered what your feeling about the casting was.
Of course, yes, I had to take it into consideration. Serious talk, now. … I spoke to Denis about this, and I wanted to know if I was on the same page as him. And thankfully, I am. His adaptation is a contemporary adaptation of Frank Herbert’s Dune, and he wanted to make it represent the world that we are in now, but also, the world that definitely will happen if we were to go that far in the future.
This is how things would look. Let’s talk about the reality of this: We’re on a different planet. Why would there not be Black people?
Of course!
What Denis had stated to me was there was a lack of female characters in his cast, and he had always been very feminist, pro-women, and wanted to write the role for a woman. And this is where I agreed: “Why shouldn’t Kynes be a woman?”
Mm-hmm.
We’re talking about someone who’s very good at handling lots of different people. Somebody who understands different cultures. This human being manages to basically keep the peace amongst many people. Women are very good at that, you know?
Yes.
So why can’t Kynes be a woman? Why shouldn’t Kynes be a woman?
That’s beautifully said, especially knowing what Denis said about what he envisioned for women in this story, like giving Lady Jessica an enhanced role.
You have many different types of women who are holding their own in a world which is male-dominated. And at the same time, they’re nurturing, they’re caring, they’re supporting. But also, they’re actually going through their own struggles. They’re actually surviving. And this is how storytelling should be. Thankfully, the conversation that we’re now able to have in this day and age, is why there should be more female characters within any production. That should just be the staple part of filmmaking from here on.
I am hoping that there will be a time when people will sit and look at interviews like this and say, “Oh, my gosh, what? There was an issue? It was unusual for a woman to take a male role?” Or “They didn’t have Black people…?” I hope that in the future people look back and say, “Well, I’m so glad things have changed.”